So many topics people have questions on, read and search about a logical answers, something to make sense, but sadly we all get back empty handed and we settle to the fact that this is how things are and i am suppose to accepted as it is and live in the suffering of the hunted questions of who i am while i am trying to find meaning of life.
but why i am suppose to settle with answers that i am not convinced of to a question about my existance and my being in this world? when i look around me i see the greatness and brilliant mind behind the universe as if it was created by a scientist, so i am not suppose to ask such questions that help me to find my place and purpose in this existance? and why my questions are going unanswered? if the Creator is so brilliant to create such complexed universe, why i can have answers to my being in it? or is it me? am i looking in the correct place to find my answers? but do i go? and what will i do?
dear friends! We’re here in the studio with the foremost Kabbalist and scientist of our era to talk about “Perception of reality.” and the topics we are going to discuss is as follow:
- Our world—an illusion
- The correct way of perceiving the world
- Why attain reality?
- What is meant by “Upper,” “spiritual”?
- Does time exist?
- So where’s God?
- About time travel
- Life after death
- Kabbalah and the UFO
- Does matter feel?
- How to avoid suffering
First question: Any Buddhist or Taoist knows that our world is the world of illusions. They know it, but I still don’t believe it, I don’t understand how this could be. Can Kabbalah help me understand it?
The Kabbalist: Many Kabbalistic sources, including those that are thousands of years old, like the Book of Zohar (written 2000 years ago),speak of the problems concerning the perception of reality.
Kabbalah has always viewed our world from a spiritual point of view. Our world really is a world of illusions. To begin with, each living creature perceives it differently. Every one of us holds on to an illusion of the existence of this world—our world.
If our sensory organs were different, we would see the world differently as well. If we were to see in infrared, ultraviolet or x-rays, if we were to hear, smell or feel in a different frequency range, then our world—the sum of our sensations—would be completely different and would draw for us a completely different picture. We know that dogs perceive the world in spots of scent, and snakes in thermal stimuli—both see the world differently. If we didn’t have our sense of sight (which provides us with 90 percent of all the information we receive), we’d perceive the world differently as well, and adapt to it accordingly: if I couldn’t see any of these objects, but knew of their existence only through tactile sensations, I would create my inner world model based on those sensations.
In other words, if we were to replace our five senses—sight, sound, smell, taste and touch—with different ones, or change their frequency range, our worldview would naturally be different. That fact alone tells us that the world is simply our subjectively perceived reality, which exists within us. If we were to add different sensory organs, we would complement the unrecognizably-different picture of the world. But we have not even the slightest clue as to what exactly we lack.
To their usual five sensory organs, Kabbalists add one additional sense, called a “soul.” This isn’t just an additional sense; it functions according to a fundamentally different principle—one of bestowal, rather than consumption. In other words, he absorbs external information, thereby becoming similar to what exists outside of him. And then he perceives the true picture of the outside world, one that isn’t perverted or disturbed by his own body and its parameters. That is the difference between a Kabbalistic perception of reality and our egoistic one.
An altruistic perception does not disturb one’s worldview; rather, it gives a sensation, awareness and knowledge of the world just as it is, irrespective of the observer. And this is the main advantage of Kabbalah. This is why it is called, “the science of Kabbalah”—the science of receiving, of perception. Only one who observes the world in a truly objective way can acquire such a worldview, and based on this worldview, one can observe all of the illusions and metamorphoses that we undergo—our body dies, we get another body, exist in it, exist outside of it, and so forth.
The Journalist: Seeing as I represent the interests of those individuals who have never studied Kabbalah, my questions are such as they are. And I must say that I am not convinced. Or I must’ve missed something. I don’t understand how the things that you’ve said show that the world is illusory.
The Kabbalist: Because we perceive the world in one particular way. Animals and other creatures with sensory organs of different frequency ranges perceive the world differently, and have a completely different worldview. And if we were to change our senses arbitrarily, we would sense yet another, third worldview.
The question is this: does anything actually exist outside of us, which each of us perceives differently? Or is there nothing at all, and everything exists within us?
We insert electrodes into a person, transmit certain signals into his subcortex, into the various regions of his brain, thereby drawing up all kinds of pictures in his imagination, and they are incredibly lifelike and real—even more real than what he feels in his usual state. Sometimes in our dreams we see breathtaking images, actions, and panoramas of events, and remain stunned by the experience long after waking up. Perhaps even now, though it seems to us that we’re awake and exist here and now, we are actually in a dream, only we can’t pinch ourselves and wake up?
Where’s the proof that we exist in some actual scheme of events, that this life is real, and not some dream or illusory picture forced upon us by invisible electrodes? How can we know this for sure?
The journalist: But the premise that it is potentially unreal or illusory—it is still only a premise, and not a fact, right? I see a glass, Michael sees a glass, and you see a glass. I see you holding it. For me—that’s reality.
The Kabbalist: In other words, any state that I experience at any particular moment is my reality. If, while I am sleeping, I experience certain states that arise within me, do those states comprise reality? Yes or no?
The journalist: Yes, of course.
The Kabbalist: Of course it’s reality; after all, I exist in a state, where it is real with regard to me. Once I wake up, I enter into another state. So then, Kabbalists tell us that when we come out of this world into the next one (the spiritual one), we see that our existence in this world was as though a dream.
The journalist: Why?
The kabbalist: Because we change realities.
The journalist: Are there many different realities?
The kabbalist: Of course. But each time it is real with regard to me, to the observer—we measure everything precisely according to Einstein’s theory…
The journalist: Meaning…
The kabbalist : Everything is relative.
The journalist: So, suppose that a hypnotist hypnotizes me, and right now it seems to me that I am in a jungle, for instance. But everyone else around me sees that we are here in this studio. So which reality is my reality?
THE CORRECT WAY OF PERCEIVING THE WORLD
The Kabbalist: Kabbalists, who examine our state from the other world, tell us: “You are all asleep. It seems to you that you exist in a real world, but you are actually in a dream.” But the reason they can tell us this is because they observe our “hypnotic state” from the side.
The journalist: In other words, I exist in certain individual sensations that create for me a certain reality…
The Kabbalist: Presently, you and I exist in a dream.
The journalist: Does that mean that Michael perceives a different reality?
The Kabbalist: No, our sensations are similar. Our sensory organs have an identical structure, which is why we imagine one another similarly—that we exist, live and develop.
All that we include in the domain of our world is merely a reflection of our consciousness. Does it actually exist? With regard to whom? This needs be discussed and researched. With regard to man, we say: “Yes, with regard to the observer—this is precisely the reality observed.” However, should he abandon his position, he will observe a different reality.
Perhaps there are many different dimensions or universes, in which we exist in various states. And there time may exist in a particular state, or it may not, or the state may be above time, beyond time. Or there may be other states, which exist according to entirely different parameters—without time, space or motion, without notions of above or below or other parameters that define our “I,” our existence. They may be totally different, but we know nothing about any of this. And Kabbalists, because they attain this other dimension vividly in this life, tell us about it, describe it to us, explain that this is the dimension that we must enter, that a completely different existence awaits us, which is so far removed from ours that it’s as though on a different planet—and we must achieve it.
The journalist: And that existence is not illusory?
The Kabbalist: With regard to us right now, it is illusory, because we don’t believe in it. But they reached this state, this existence, and with regard to their state they are telling us that ours is a complete illusion, like a dream.
The journalist: Are there any other states, besides those that are attained by Kabbalists?
The Kabbalist: They can’t tell us anything beyond what they actually attain. After all, man attains only from within himself, from his tools of perception, from his sensations. If he acquires some other sensations, then he’ll be able to tell us about them, but otherwise—he cannot.
Moreover, when Kabbalists attain all this, their attainment is absolutely accurate and scientific—with graphs, formulas, and precise measurements; they convey it to one another in such a way that enables others to make those same movements toward this other world, to observe from it, describe their sensations, and the commonalities of their research. Meaning, it is just like the sciences of our world, in which scientists work together so as to expand on their research. At the same time, Kabbalists also warn us that all their observations are strictly subjective to their own attainments.
And just as in our world with regard to the observer, science studies our illusion, or reality, or illusory reality, (it doesn’t matter what we call it), Kabbalah too studies the other dimension only with regard to the observer, and warns us about this. It is therefore said: “All man has is what he attains in his Kelim,”—his vessels. The actual proverb goes: “A judge has only what his eyes see”—as his strongest, most reliable attainment.
The journalist: This reality that Kabbalists attain—is it the same for all of them? Or does everyone have their own?
The Kabbalist: No, it’s the same.
The journalist: Just as in our world?
The Kabbalist: Just as in our world our sensations are similar, even though each of us experiences them in our own way. It’s the same with Kabbalists.
The journalist: All the Eastern teachings that claim that our world is illusory are in agreement with Kabbalah. However, the position from which they consider this world illusory may not coincide with what Kabbalists see and feel?
The Kabbalist: These days even science is developing a clear understanding that our world is illusory. What does “illusory” mean? It depends solely on our sensory organs—their frequency range and mode of operation. That’s the “illusion,” though it is not really an illusion; rather, it is an entirely subjective picture that I draw for myself. Were I to have different eyes, different ears, different tactile sensations and so forth, I would perceive a different picture: an object that appears solid to me right now may appear gaseous. If, for instance, I were to see and relate to our world like neutrino or some other particles that penetrate everything, and sense that I penetrate and see as if through this matter, then, naturally, my perception of this entire world would be completely different.
The journalist: Meaning, I simply wouldn’t see this desk?
The Kabbalist: Of course, it would be transparent to me. And why not? In my current sensations, a certain combination of certain elements manifests as this particular solid object, whereas in truth there are other states in our world, where its solidity is not perceived as a problem or an obstacle one bit. Under a certain amount of pressure, I sense these obstacles; that is what we call “tactile sensations”—the object presses back on me, and out of this pressure, out of my reaction I construct the object in my sensations: what it is, what it’s like, etc.
The journalist: I think I’m beginning to understand. What you’re saying is that my perception is subjective because it is I who receives this information, right?
The Kabbalist: Of course.
The journalist: Meaning, you could’ve received it differently?
The Kabbalist: No, I would’ve received it the same way, because our sensations are similar, our sensory organs have identical structure.
The journalist: Then it’s objective? Because if I, he and another hundred people…
The Kabbalist: Objective for whom? With regard to man in our world. This is how our world manifests within man. But whether or not it exists on the outside, I cannot say. I detect certain sounds and certain images; they are drawn within me, but not on the outside. For instance, I see this table and this glass. Do they actually exist outside of me? I do not know, I cannot say. The only thing I can say is that images are drawn within me that appear to me as though they exist on the outside. This glass here—does it have the same form outside of my senses? No, it does not have the same form; it just appears to me this way. But what is it actually like? I cannot say what it’s actually like—only with regard to the perceiver, to the observer.
There are four approaches to perceiving reality. The Newtonian approach states that the world outside of us is the same as we perceive it within.
There is another approach that was developed by Hugh Everett, (American physicist, who first proposed the many-worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics), which states that the world is the same as we perceive it, but also dependent upon the disturbances that we ourselves introduce to it. In other words, the world is something in between the observer and the picture he observes: I exist in certain contact with the world, and our common properties, our points of contact draw for me a certain picture. In this case, the picture of the world that I receive does, in fact, depend on my own properties.
Why is this so? Because even in our daily life there are certain things that I notice, and other things that I don’t, certain things that I perceive, but they escape my consciousness right after I perceive them. Meaning, there are certain things out there that I simply don’t pay attention to, or, conversely, focus my attention on. I exist in greater or lesser contact with various objects, which determines how they are drawn within me. In other words, I perceive only a portion of the world that exists around me. It may contain other objects that I don’t yet perceive.
And then there’s another view, which is closer to Kabbalah’s view, (there are also all kinds of other theories that exist between these), and it states that, in reality, we don’t perceive anything that exists outside of us. Nothing at all. We perceive only what is constructed within us.
You can look at it this way: there is a certain source that exists outside of us; if I knock on this table—you hear a sound. A certain action is made, and it creates a certain wave. This wave reaches your ear, strikes the eardrum, moves through all the systems, (electrical, chemical), reflects in your brain, which juxtaposes it against familiar data, determines that it is a sound, and informs you of it.
What does your own perception have to do with the outside sound? All sorts of reactions took place: mechanical pressure from this wave, followed by electrical phenomena, followed by all kinds of chemical reactions, juxtaposed against your various memories, recollections, and so forth. What does all this have to do with whatever took place on the outside? Very-very little. That is why it is said that there are similarities between the observer and various external phenomena.
But Kabbalah tells us that even these similarities don’t exist, and neither are there any external phenomena—everything exists within man. And outside of us there’s nothing. There is a constant force, within which we exist, and based on our compatibility with this constant force (this absolute constant), various kinds of internal phenomena occur within us, and create within us all sorts of sensations.
In other words, I sense and perceive only my own inner changes, my inner development with regard to this constant external force. And this picture of my inner changes is presented to me as my worldview. This is what Kabbalah states and describes, and does so scientifically—using mathematics, physics, graphs, and so forth, inviting us to enter into this reality. And when you begin to study it, research it, and enter into these states, you see that it is truly so.
And science is gradually coming to this conclusion as well. A time ago people’s trust lay in Newton alone, then Einstein, then Hugh Everett, and now they’re beginning to agree with or least to listen to what Kabbalah has been saying and describing for many thousands of years.
The journalist: It follows from what you’re saying that, throughout man’s whole life, while he thinks that he is studying the world around him, in reality he is studying himself?
The Kabbalist: Absolutely right. Yes, we study only ourselves. Generally speaking, all this is no more than an act of self-awareness.
WHY ATTAIN REALITY?
The journalist: But why should one attain another reality that exists outside of him? How does it benefit him? Does it teach him how to live his life or something?
The Kabbalist: We are being pushed toward the entrance to this new reality, and we must enter it. We must feel ourselves in it. We must exist in it, because existence in this uppermost external reality is eternal and complete. This is what nature is pushing us toward.
It doesn’t matter whether we desire it or not. This is how we’re structured from the very beginning—we must undergo this gradual development and come to feel this external reality, enter and exist within it. So much so that the sensation of this world and our contacts within it disappears. And the present picture ascends, little by little, as though transforming into the images and forces of that external, upper reality.
The journalist: Alex from Berlin is asking the following question (I think that you’ve partially answered it already): “Once upon a time, Lao Tzu, the founder of Taoism, dreamed that he was a butterfly. When he woke up, he spent a lot of time thinking about what he was in reality: a butterfly, who dreams that it is Lao Tzu, or Lao Tzu, who dreams that he is a butterfly?” What can Kabbalah tell him?
The Kabbalist: Kabbalah can tell him this: eventually he will enter into yet another reality. He exists both in life, at least what we call “life,” and in a dream, but because his sensations are so vivid, he cannot tell one apart from the other. By the way, one’s sensations in a dream may be even more vivid than in life—is that not so? And the opposite can also be true, so this doesn’t mean anything. Whenever we fall asleep and then wake up, we are in control of ourselves, because we divide these two things—this is life, and this is a dream. However, in essence, both states are illusory.
Kabbalah would have shown Lao Tzu that there is yet another state, which exists beyond both dream and vigil, a state that contains an absolute and constant flow of information, and this state is called “eternal and perfect life or existence,” although this is not our understanding of “life.” And looking from that existence at our present state, the entire inanimate, vegetative and animate nature of our world, our universe, including man, is merely an illusion, clusters of energy—and nothing more. So, both of his states—dream and vigil—would appear to Lao Tzu as mere illusion with regard to those who exist in it.
The journalist: And one can exist in both worlds simultaneously?
The Kabbalist: Until a Kabbalist fully completes his ascension into the Upper World, into this next dimension, he retains the sensation of our world. As soon as he fully enters this upper reality, he retains the sensations of this world only because he needs to maintain contact with other people. However, there is essentially no need for him to return to this illusion anymore.
The journalist: But as he lives here, does he also exist in that world at the same time? Or, for instance, in this world I can look or not look, I can hear or close my ears and not hear; does a Kabbalist also, while existing in this world with his five senses and in the spiritual world simultaneously, sometimes “drops out” of there?
The Kabbalist: Sometimes he does “drop out,” and this depends on whether or not he associates himself as the inner stress with the Upper World. In order to exist in the Upper dimension, one needs to act in a particular manner. For instance, if a person is very sick, if he loses consciousness or if he has no opportunity to focus himself appropriately and relate himself to this dimension, he may drop out of it.
The journalist: But does he know that he dropped out? Is he conscious of it?
The Kabbalist: Yes. That is, the contact with the Upper World remains in a person forever. And reestablishing this contact depends on him alone.
WHAT IS MEANT BY “UPPER,” “SPIRITUAL”?
The journalist: But why this word—“upper”?
The Kabbalist: “Upper,” because from there our present state is perceived as lower, limited and transient. A spiritual state is dominant and truly better. That is why it is called, “upper.” In our world, this is how we assign the correlation—“upper” and “lower.”
The journalist: And why is it the, “spiritual world”?
The Kabbalist: “Spiritual,” because it bears no relation to corporeal objects—it is above them, beyond them.
The journalist: And where is the word “spiritual” itself from? From the root of “spirit”?
The Kabbalist: In Kabbalah, the word Ruach is used. Generally speaking, though, the force that governs our world is broken down into five forces: Nefesh, Ruach, Neshama, Chaya and Yechida. And combined they are called the “Upper Light.” It is not the light of our world, but the Light of the Upper World, meaning completely different frequencies and properties. So then, the concepts of Light and spirituality are one and the same.
The journalist: If I’m not mistaken, one of the things that Julius Caesar was famous for was his ability to do 5 things at once. Can a Kabbalist use the mind of our material world to, let’s say, be engaged in a conversation with the two of us, while using his Kabbalistic mind to converse with, for instance, Julius Caesar?
The Kabbalist: Constantly! Because these are two absolutely unconnected sections of his “I”: the animal one is the lower section of our world, and the spiritual one pertains to the Upper soul. Naturally, he exists in both worlds.
The journalist: And if the mind of one asks the mind of the other which place is more fun, what would be the answer?
The Kabbalist: Well, what do you think? There’s nothing worse than our world.
The journalist: But there are so many interesting things here.
The Kabbalist: Just like the kids in a kindergarten are also amused with their toys. But there really is nothing worse than our world.
The journalist: In every way?
The Kabbalist: Absolutely.
The journalist: So, in all seriousness, any person in this world is always worse off than in the other?
The Kabbalist: Any person. Because in this world that we live in, we are constantly fleeing from suffering. And even a tiny drop of pleasure we perceive as happiness. This drop is then immediately extinguished, and yet again we resume our hunt for illusory pleasures. And this hunt is what we call “life.” In truth, it’s nothing more than an endless pursuit or search for any kind of fulfillment. Hence, we really cannot call it interesting or good, except perhaps for want of a better alternative. But I suggest that you try the alternative, and then you’ll see.
The journalist: A two-part question from the internet: “Are there parallel worlds?” is the first part, and the second is addressed to you directly: “Were you ever in them?”
The Kabbalist: I don’t know what they mean by, “parallel worlds.” There’s a variety of our reflections in other words. There are a total of five worlds: Assiya, Yetzira, Beria, Atzilut, Adam Kadmon and Olam Ein Sof—the so-called parallel worlds, but they’re all spiritual. There are no other corporeal universes or worlds, like ours.
We exist at the lowest possible level. All that exists above this level by even one degree is already the spiritual—a total of 125 degrees, divided by five worlds.
The journalist: In the 60-70s there were lots of disputes as to whether there’s life on Mars. So your answer is no?
The Kabbalist: Mars is neither a parallel universe nor a parallel world.
DOES TIME EXIST?
The journalist: Next question: how and why does a sensation of time appear?
The Kabbalist: A sensation of time is a strictly subjective sensation. In accordance with this subjective sensation, we observe that our world is in motion, witness cause-and-effect processes, where cause always precedes effect, and effect, in turn, becomes cause for the next effect, and so forth. These changes, as they manifest to us in this sequence, create in us a sensation of time.
In reality, even science, beginning with Einstein, states that time does not exist in and of itself. There are probabilities, and not only probabilities, but also instances where effect precedes and determines cause, and both life and time flow not in a fixed direction, but in a completely different one. These are the findings of modern science. And Kabbalah states that there is not even the notion of time. It doesn’t exist.
The journalist: Time or notion?
The Kabbalist: Time doesn’t exist. In other words, the real world (the spiritual world) is not a world of time; rather, it is a world of categories and forces. We cannot imagine this, because our lives are completely deterministic. Our pulse, our life: all that we perceive is recorded in us automatically in terms of time—when said event took place—just like in a computer. You press a button, and the time of its pressing has been recorded. The next action—the next button—recorded again. And whatever it is you do (receive or send messages), everything is always recorded in terms of time, according to the computer’s inner clock. And that same inner clock exists in us.
But in reality (in the spiritual world), this is not so. And science is gradually uncovering and agreeing with this, just as with everything else that Kabbalah says. It’s quite amazing. Imagine, The Book of Creation, written back in the times of Ancient Babylon (that’s four and a half thousand years ago!) speaks of the same “new” concepts and worldviews that science is only beginning to approach today. Everything that you and I are talking about right now stems from there.
The journalist: If I understood you correctly, the sensation of time arises in a person as a result of a change of state, an emergence of new states—they as though give him some inner indication or perception of time?
The Kabbalist: If there were no changes, we would not feel time.
The journalist: And you’re saying that there’s no time in the spiritual. Perhaps my question will sound foolish, but doesn’t that mean that the spiritual contains only one state?
The Kabbalist: Yes. That’s absolutely right. The spiritual cannot contain multiple states. Otherwise they would be classified in relation to one another: better or worse. The spiritual is absolute.
The journalist: But you yourself said that it contains five worlds.
The Kabbalist: Those five worlds pertain to a gradual ascent to the final world. A true spiritual state is this final world, in which the notions of time and causality are fully nullified.
The journalist: Does the person get dumber or something?
The Kabbalist: No, he doesn’t get dumber; on the contrary, his attainment becomes absolutely boundless.
The journalist: So time disappears because it is no longer needed?
The Kabbalist: Time is what binds us, and is the reason for our foolishness. Whereas without time our bindings disappear, and we can truly be all-intelligent and all-attaining. Cause-and-effect contracts, combines into a single whole, and we attain the Universe in full capacity.
The journalist: In other words, the sensation of time in the spiritual changes from the way I perceive it now to the final state, when this sensation disappears altogether? Meaning, it disappears gradually? And the sensation of time does exist in the spiritual worlds in some way, right?
The Kabbalist: It exists as cause and effect. Time is when cause and effect are separated: here’s the beginning and here’s the next stage. In our world these two events may be separated by many years, but since nothing took place between them, in the spiritual they remain linked, standing close to one another, with one following the other.
In other words, the spiritual world isn’t constructed on the basis of the ‘tic-tac’ of my watch, my pulse or my heart; it is constructed on spiritual actions alone. Sequence of spiritual actions determines spiritual time. There’s no notion of mechanical time in and of itself, such as the revolutions of the sun, the Earth and so forth. In the spiritual, time constitutes causal development of a person.
SO WHERE’S GOD?
The journalist: When you say “spiritual,” do you mean some kind of angels?
The Kabbalist: Angels are forces.
The journalist: For me, the spiritual means musical instrument, chubby angels against a blue sky…
The Kabbalist: And what’s so spiritual about that? Go into any temple and you’ll see all sorts of attributes. Why are they spiritual? They’re absolutely corporeal. And they’re usually made out of some fine, expensive material. So there’s nothing spiritual about them.
The journalist: So where does God come in? We keep saying “time,” “worlds”… what about God?
The Kabbalist: There is no God. Where have you ever seen a God? He doesn’t exist. There is a general force of nature, which surrounds and governs everything. You can call it God or Creator, which is how Kabbalah characterizes it.
Creator—because it creates. This is a force that created everything. But the God that is portrayed in religion—one that changes with respect to people, hands out punishments or rewards, is either kind or cruel, and so forth—there is no God like that, that’s nothing more than man’s fairy tales. This is how a small child imagines the world for himself, transfers his sensations and perceptions of life onto higher categories. It’s just like the Gods of Ancient Greece—they got married, cheated on their spouses, killed one another, and so forth. The mythology is rich and beautiful, but a fairy tale nonetheless. It is obviously invented by mankind on the basis of what it observes in this world.
The same is true with all the other religions. They’re all human fairy tales, speculations on what may supposedly exist somewhere far, far away. At one time people thought that it existed in space, they don’t think that anymore. Perhaps behind a galaxy somewhere? I cannot imagine where else their imagination takes them. Which dimension? No one knows. Where then? Where is he hiding? Before people thought: the Earth is flat, perhaps he’s on the other side. Nowadays we know it is round, so you can’t really hide anywhere. What is mankind still imagining? It seems to me that it’s not imagining anything anymore.
The journalist: Blind nature, then? Is that what God is?
The Kabbalist: The Creator is nature—a general, invariable law of nature, a law of absolute bestowal and love.
The journalist: Does He feel? Can He feel us?
The Kabbalist: That we cannot say. If you’re talking about what He feels, that means that you perceive Him, study him, and know what He’s feeling by transferring your feelings onto Him.
The journalist: He can be studied?
The Kabbalist: Why, of course! This is precisely the goal and purpose of man. “Attain your Creator” is a commandment. In other words, study Him and come to know him completely, be just like Him. It is this very Highest force of nature that we must come to. We must adapt it within ourselves, we must become like it, exist at the same level as it does. But this is a force, a property. It is not an object.
There are no objects in the spiritual whatsoever; the winged angels that you’ve mentioned are forces as well. They are not corporeal. An angel is a force. For example, the force of gravity is an angel. Any force is referred to as an angel. Why? Because it is part of the general force, called the Creator.
The journalist: When my level of perception of reality changes, and I will be above this world…
The Kabbalist: Then you will see these forces yourself!
ABOUT TIME TRAVEL
The journalist: A question about time travel: will we ever reach a state when our body will be able to travel through time, like we see in the movies?
The Kabbalist: We can evoke such an illusion within us, just as we evoke the illusion of our world. Not a problem. But then what? What is present, past and future? They are but pictures that are already implanted within us, developing in our imagination along an axis of time.
For example, I look at a film strip and see all kinds of pictures separated by a beginning, a middle and an end. The film is played from the beginning, but I can fast-forward and see what happens in the middle or in the end. And then rewind back to the beginning. This film strip exists within us in its entirety and is gradually unraveling.
You’re asking me if I can rewind it? No problem, because it already exists within us. Nothing exists outside of us; everything is evoked from within. In other words, this entire film exists within us. And the VCR that plays this film for us is also within us. For me, skipping from the beginning to the end is not only possible, it’s easy as pie.
The journalist: So how can you do it?
The Kabbalist: What for?
The journalist: I want to see how things were 200 years ago.
The Kabbalist: That’s not a problem; all this can be easily evoked within a person. Of course, all these information records are protected by a special secret code, so to speak, like a private database in a computer, because you need to adapt them in accordance with your spiritual development.
Our world is really like a reception area, in which man gradually becomes disillusioned from his existence in this dimension, and is forced into a desire to enter into the next dimension. The next dimension is the spiritual dimension. And this is why we are not allowed to play around with time just for the hell of it, because then we wouldn’t be carrying out the program of creation—to attain the Creator’s level and to become equal to the Upper Force.
The journalist: When you were talking about the film strip and how easy it is to travel to the past, the future, (anywhere!), I was thinking that people would pay incredible money for this! For the pleasure to visit the ancient Roman empire, for instance, go to the Coliseum and watch the gladiators, to tell the Roman emperor: “Nero, my friend, listen…”
The Kabbalist: No, that’s incorrect. You can watch this film, but you cannot intervene, because at that time you were in another incarnation, not the modern you that you are now.
The journalist: I can only watch the film as a spectator?
The Kabbalist: You can go back and forth, but in accordance with your state.
The journalist: Meaning, the man I was then?
The Kabbalist: Or the man that you will be. Of course.
The journalist: So I could only shine Nero’s boots and that’s it? I would go back to that same state, right?
The Kabbalist: Or worse.
The journalist: Alright, but I was talking about something else. I really liked your description, but for us these things today are sweet but insurmountable dreams.
The Kabbalist: Why? I personally see nothing pleasant in the history of mankind to warrant a desire to travel back there. You want to go back to your state? You will be shown your state 200-300 years ago, who you were and what you felt. Can you imagine what it was like?
You perceive this world from within yourself; the film (this entire illusion) is rolling within you. I would advise against going back. However, going forward is where you can exercise your freedom of choice.
In other words, the shots are already predetermined, but who you will be in these shots isn’t. This depends on you. Therefore, the future still remains a question mark. There’s a certain role that you must play, but how you will play it is up to you.
The journalist: All of these pleasures, albeit false or illusory, that take our breath away, to you seem ridiculously small. But in the spiritual you feel something tremendous…
The Kabbalist: Of course, there’s absolutely no reason to bother with our world, other than helping others enter this dimension faster, as such is nature’s program.
The journalist: But everyone must enter it?
The Kabbalist: Absolutely everyone, and in our time too.
The journalist: Even a Papuan that’s eating a banana somewhere at this moment?
The Kabbalist: Of course. And not only the Papuan, by the way, but also all those illusions that we see—inanimate, vegetative and animate nature—they all attain this spiritual level together with us.
The journalist: You mean elephants, trees and rocks?
The Kabbalist: Everything! There will be nothing left in the dimension that we perceive as our world.
The journalist: Does this planet then disappear?
The Kabbalist: The illusion of this world disappears.
The journalist: In those who escaped it or in everyone?
The Kabbalist: It doesn’t disappear in those who escaped it; rather, they observe it from the side. But when humankind actualizes its mission and all souls ascend onto the level of the spiritual world, the need for this world—the lowest corporeal perception—disappears. And these souls now perceive themselves as existing in the spiritual dimension only.
LIFE AFTER DEATH
The journalist: While existing in our world, a Kabbalist perceives both worlds at once. What happens to a Kabbalist when his body dies? How does he perceive this world?
The Kabbalist: He perceives this world from the spiritual one…
The journalist: With his soul?
The Kabbalist: Yes, of course.
The journalist: But he still sees and feels it?
The Kabbalist: With his soul, just as before. But before he perceived our world both with his soul and his physical body. If his physical body dies, then he perceives with his soul only.
The journalist: Next question: what is the system striving towards—chaos or equilibrium?
The Kabbalist: The system is striving towards revelation of a singular and absolute harmony. Meaning, it is neither chaos nor equilibrium the way we imagine them.
You can call it “equilibrium.” And we can see this even in our world. All the problems that we feel—all that transpires inside and outside of us—even though it may seem that we’re moving towards chaos, we are actually moving from chaos to harmony. Their purpose is to force man to see our world as absolute chaos, to discover this chaos within himself, to realize that everything depends on him alone—that’s what it means to create within oneself absolute harmony. Thus he will come to feel the world outside as eternal and perfect.
The journalist: Professor Vernadsky wrote that the Earth contains some information field. Does it really exist?
The Kabbalist: Yes, of course. Fields and forces are all we’re talking about.
KABBALAH AND THE UFO
The journalist: Next question: Is there life on other planets or in other galaxies? What is Kabbalah’s attitude towards UFOs?
The Kabbalist: Outer space may very well contain some vegetative or animate forms of life that are built on some other foundations, not ours. The one form that doesn’t exist anywhere else, however, is “human.”
The Journalist: What is “HUMAN”?
Human is an animal just the same. According to all modern research, including science, man can be regarded as a developed animal, nothing more. Still, there’s something in him that separates him from animals. He isn’t simply better than they are or possesses some other properties—freedom of will, for instance. He doesn’t, that’s just an illusion. However, man does contain a spiritual component—an opportunity to enter spiritual space—and that is the only difference between man and animals.
So then, man exists only on Earth, and nowhere else. There are no UFOs whatsoever. All these things are mankind’s own fairytales and illusions, created to window-dress its existence and provide “answers” to its questions.
The journalist: But there’s proof: they were seen, even filmed.
The Kabbalist: That’s not proof; none of these things transcend the illusions of our perception. But if a lot of people get pleasure from busying themselves with it in their spare time, why not let them? At least until the error of it all is revealed.
The journalist: Can a minor change in perception of this world by one or several people change the world? For instance, diseases would disappear?
The Kabbalist: If I perceive this world differently from you, it is I who perceives it differently, not you.
The journalist: Meaning, it changes for you?
The Kabbalist: Correct, it changes for me. Now, how can I affect your perception of the world? Only superficially. If you desire it, then I can pass on to you some of my experience, (in other words), the science of Kabbalah. And then you will be able to gradually prepare within yourself for the perception of the Upper World. But it is you who will have to do it, not me. I am merely preparing you for this.
The journalist: In other words, as Kabbalists advance and change, they cannot really change our world, but can only help everyone else to change their own world?
The Kabbalist: They cannot do the work for you. Their mission is to disseminate the wisdom. They prepare this wisdom for humankind, either openly or more discreetly.
DOES MATTER FEEL?
The journalist: Nikolai from Moscow is asking: does matter feel?
The Kabbalist: Good question. All matter is but a desire to enjoy. Why do atoms move around, why are elementary particles attracted and repelled? Why do they fly? What is happening to them? A desire arises in them, and matter itself actualizes this desire—either by moving or interacting with other matter and so on—so as to fulfill the desire on the still, vegetative and animate levels.
All matter constitutes an outer shell of an inner desire—the desire to enjoy. The desire to enjoy can be tiny and consist of only one desire—simply to retain its form.
The journalist: Meaning the still?
The Kabbalist: Yes. But as it begins to develop, it can also be greater—vegetative, greater still—animate, and greater still—human. But it is still the same desire to enjoy. There’s nothing else in the universe.
All matter is founded on this desire. We do not perceive the desires themselves, but only the matter—the manifestation of this force that is aimed at reception of pleasure. Perception of matter itself is an illusion. There is no matter. It is the desires that appear to me in a particular form of matter—still, vegetative, animate and human levels, with all sorts of variations with regard to type, properties and so on. But all of this is merely various degrees of the desire to enjoy.
The journalist: You’re telling me that all that surrounds us is desires? These books right here, the table, flowers, butterflies—they’re desires?
The Kabbalist: Yes. And all of you are desires as well.
The journalist: People too? you and I are desires?
The Kabbalist: Yes. And our thoughts and feelings as well—all of this is desires.
The journalist: So, in reality, when I look at you, I’m looking at a desire that only looks like him, but I cannot see him in any other way?
The Kabbalist: Yes. Subjectively. You see him the way you want to and are capable of seeing him.
The journalist: That is to say, I see the body, but I don’t see the essence. If I could see the essence, I would see the desires, whereas right now I see only the body?
The Kabbalist: Yes. That’s the difference between the spiritual world and our world.
The journalist: And when did matter first appear?
The Kabbalist: When man appeared who could perceive it.
The journalist: And before that there was no matter? Is that correct? But all the textbooks say that the material world exists for billions of years, and man appeared only some thousands of years ago.
The Kabbalist: We’re the ones writing these textbooks, and this is how we express it, because this is how we perceive the world. How else can we talk about matter, which exists in the form that we observe, if there is no observer?
The journalist: I don’t really understand.
The Kabbalist: Suppose that 50 thousand years ago there’s no man, no one to perceive all this. Now, if there is no observer, does our world exist?
The journalist: Well, no, I guess.
The Kabbalist: What can we write about then? Only about what seemingly existed 50 thousand years ago, according to our understanding, our perceptions, and our ability to describe it.
The journalist: But they find fossils and other evidence all the time…
The Kabbalist: This is how we perceive the world, the way it manifests to us.
The journalist: Then the world wasn’t created by some big bang, but appeared the moment I began to perceive it?
The Kabbalist: This world doesn’t exist in the first place. However you describe it, that’s how it’ll be. And that’s that.
The journalist: And the dinosaurs?
The Kabbalist: Anything at all. After all, it’s all according to the observer. However, we can descend to another level—(not the Kabbalistic position of viewing our world from the Upper World and perceiving absolute reality)—but the way it appears in man’s perceptions.
When I begin to investigate this world in my perceptions, I discover that the Universe appeared 15 billion years ago as a result of an explosion; 5 billion years ago—the Solar system and the Earth, 100 million years ago—dinosaurs, 50 thousand years ago—mankind, and so on. Again, I’m talking about my own perceptions, about measuring against myself, my own sensory organs.
The journalist: About the way I read these desires?
The Kabbalist: Yes.
The journalist: And now, in order for me to see that all these 50 thousand years I’ve been reading only desires, I need to ascend above this world in the properties of a Kabbalist?
The Kabbalist: Yes. Then you will start perceiving quite differently. And what’s interesting is that there are actually no contradictions arising from it, because even the modern sciences of our world are beginning to realize that everything is subjective and exists only according to the observer. Einstein was the first to create this revolution, followed by Hugh Everett, and the scientists of our time are already on the verge of realizing this.
And not just the scientists. Look at the movies coming out that are dealing with perception of reality, such as The Matrix, and so on. They speak of existence of other dimensions, in which we exist parallel to and in an utterly different form than in our world, connected or unconnected to it, and so forth. This means that in our minds such notions are clearly becoming quite possible. Do you see what we’re coming to?
The journalist: Science fiction writers have been writing about seemingly completely unrealistic things. But in so doing are they simply expressing man’s thirst for attainment, albeit via a corporeal method? After all, much of what they’ve been writing about is coming true…
The Kabbalist: Yes. You don’t have to be a Kabbalist in order to predict events in our world. It is a manifestation of certain properties in certain people who have nothing to do with Kabbalah.
The journalist: And what was he reading this information of?
The Kabbalist: It simply existed in him. And when he needed to, he would read it. Because it exists, from beginning to end—remember the example with the film strip.
The journalist: Then a Kabbalist can read it as well?
The Kabbalist: A Kabbalist doesn’t read as well as this Messing, because a Kabbalist deals with forces, rather than these properties on the level of our world.
The journalist: He doesn’t deal with them, because it’s unbecoming of him or what?
The Kabbalist: What’s the difference? After all, this isn’t where man actualizes himself.
The journalist: In other words, the tasks set before a Kabbalist are more important?
The Kabbalist: Of course. What’s more important—ascending to the Upper World or knowing what’s going to happen to you?
The journalist: Well, no one wants to end up under a bus either…
The Kabbalist: Ah, that won’t change anything anyway. Remember Oedipus? In spite of everything, he wasn’t able to escape his fate. Same with Messing—he could predict his own death and many other things, but he couldn’t change anything.
The journalist: And a Kabbalist can?
The Kabbalist: A Kabbalist can influence or at least try to influence other people so that they change their future for the better.
The journalist: So the earthquake that’s supposed to happen in five years somewhere can be avoided if we follow the Kabbalists’ instructions?
HOW TO AVOID SUFFERING
The Kabbalist: Yes, because people will come to such harmony with nature that there will be no earthquake; rather, they will have to experience it within themselves.
The journalist: As an earthquake or as something else?
The Kabbalist: As a kind of inner shock when ascending onto a higher spiritual level. Then there will not by any external manifestation.
The journalist: Is this inner earthquake painful?
The Kabbalist: No-no, but they do need to correct themselves at the level of this suffering. They will need to adapt these shocks within themselves into a positive direction.
The journalist: Baal HaSulam writes about a third and fourth world wars. Does this mean that they may happen in our material world?
The Kabbalist: All prophets, including Baal HaSulam, who was also on the level of a prophet, (a prophet is a Kabbalist who attains a particular level in the spiritual worlds), warned us of what may happen, but they were speaking about people. That is, it is in our power to take all these phenomena (tremendous pain, suffering, calamities, etc.), and thereby correct ourselves, so that they would occur within us, instead of in our corporeal world over a period of many years. Imagine a small child that doesn’t want to study; his parents attempt to force him and they punish him, but he’s being stubborn and still doesn’t want to study. If he does decide to correct himself, in doing so he cancels this long line of punishments that are awaiting him, and everything is fine from there on. Meaning, in the end, under the influence of the stick, he still needs to absorb within himself the desire to study. Compelling him to absorb the correct desire within himself and choose to develop without the influence of the stick is precisely what we’re trying to do by disseminating the wisdom of Kabbalah.
The journalist: A question: then it follows that although the proverbial chain of fate is predetermined, it can be traversed either by force or on one’s own volition?
The Kabbalist: Those are the two paths that exist in nature. Kabbalah offers the good, painless path of minimal losses.
The journalist: If I take this film strip and look into the future, I will see the third and fourth world wars, right?
The Kabbalist: Right. You will see that the third and fourth world wars will happen. Just as it is written in all the books by all the prophets—all of our terrible problems are predicted well in advance. However, they absolutely do not need to and may never actually take place. The prophets write about what must happen in accordance with the driving forces of nature, which propels mankind towards the goal. However, mankind can realize this and wise up, and traverse these steps via a pleasant, beautiful and simple shortcut.
The journalist: What will the film strip show then?
The Kabbalist: The film strip will then show not the outer, but the inner states that one must go through. Meaning, yes—there’ll be a war, but an inner war with one’s own self, and not the outer war, which would cause such suffering that eventually it would force us out of necessity to experience the inner war and correct ourselves. Just as in the example with the child who didn’t want to study. How much time will he waste and how much suffering will he endure before he decides to start studying? Similarly, Kabbalah shows mankind the problems that await us, as well as the alternative, better way out.
The journalist: Is the holy written are a depiction of inner wars as well?
The Kabbalist: Absolutely! It speaks only of inner problems.
The journalist: Are thoughts corporeal?
The Kabbalist: Thoughts are forces.
The journalist: Are forces corporeal?
The Kabbalist: No. But if we perceive them, we perceive them from a corporeal carrier.
The journalist: Can a person change his life by the power of his mind?
The Kabbalist: Of course. Thought is the greatest force in our world, in our Universe, in all the worlds. There’s nothing more powerful than thought or intention. Everything that we do is done by the force of intention only. The entire crisis of today, as diverse and global as it is, is solely the result of our incorrect desires.
The journalist: Desires or intentions?
The Kabbalist: It’s the same thing. Because a desire in and of itself, without an intention, amounts to absolutely nothing. But what is it that you want to derive from it? You want to enjoy egoistically, using everything and everyone around you.
The journalist: Can I really drink a glass of water without an egoistic intention for myself?
The Kabbalist: Well, that’s something that is essential for you and not harmful to others. By “incorrect desires” I’m referring to a person’s attitude toward others.
The journalist: So when we speak of egoism, we’re talking about a relationship between two or more people?
The Kabbalist: Egoism is man’s attitude toward his environment—how he wants to use everything that surrounds him for his own sake. This includes his attitude toward nature.
The journalist: According to scientists, a human brain is capable of processing an enormous amount of information, yet we perceive only a tiny part of it consciously.
The Kabbalist: Yes, only about two percent is used.
The journalist: Why is that?
The Kabbalist: Because the rest of our brain is intended for spiritual work. This two percent is that maximum that we use in our everyday corporeal life. And that’s all we need. Everything else that exists within us is there to enable us to begin working for the next dimension, and then we will come to require the remaining part of the brain.
The journalist: So, when this body was created 50 thousand years ago, the need for spiritual development was already planned? And all this potential was already embedded?
The Kabbalist: Well, of course, stemming from our last state, naturally. What, did you think that everything evolved blindly?
The journalist: I think what I’ve been taught in school.
The journalist: Can we say that, from the standpoint of Kabbalah, evolution is still going on? In other words, in the near future will we need to evolve onto an entirely new level for all mankind?
The Kabbalist: Today, in the nearest future we must enter onto a new level of the spiritual world, into the new dimension of the Universe. If we don’t do this, severe forces of nature will force us to do it through suffering. It would be better if it happens through recognizing this necessity.
The journalist: Are there black holes and can Kabbalists study them?
The Kabbalist: Everyone has his own definition for these black holes, information gaps, fields that are consumed by some energy, its disappearance… All these questions deal with the material world and are physicists’ jurisdiction. Whereas Kabbalah doesn’t deal with matter whatsoever, even its undulatory or any other such aspects. Which is why I have no answer for you.
The journalist: And what does Kabbalah study?
The Kabbalist: Kabbalah studies only the Upper Force, which includes all the worlds, us, and how we can ascend and attain the level of equivalence with this force. And that’s all we need.
If there is only one single force which governs and maintains everything, on which we are completely dependent, why study anything else? Why should we concern ourselves with some trivial matters? What can I possibly gain from it?
I am influenced by that very Upper most level. I need to equalize myself to it, liken myself, achieve a state of homeostasis, balance and comfort with precisely this Upper Force.
The journalist: With the Creator?
The Kabbalist: Call it the Creator, if you like. I need to attain His level, to become just like Him. This is embedded in each of us, and this is what we must actualize.
The journalist: A question from the United States: Have you ever wanted to just drop it all and set out in quest of adventure, see the world, and start a new life?
The Kabbalist: These things are always on my mind, just as with any other Kabbalist. But what new things can I possibly find in this world? What can you find today? You can fly around our entire little globe, but what will you find? In all countries there’s just more of the same. What’s new in any of this? What possible news can there be in this world, on this tiny planet? Something to briefly occupy my senses? When all is said and done, what do I really see when I travel the world? By the way, I still like to travel, and I like nature. I do it to keep myself in good physical shape. But aside from that, this would make for a very limited perception of everything. I think that people will become bored with it very soon.
The visions that one receives from perceiving spiritual properties can replace any vacation. We are talking about endless and completely boundless sensations and discoveries.
The journalist: At a certain point, when we leave this Earth, it will disappear as well, am I right?
The Kabbalist: It’s not Earth that will disappear, but this world that we perceive with our five senses, because these senses themselves will disappear.
The journalist: The entire Universe then, and not just Earth?
The Kabbalist: Everything that we perceive.
The journalist: Adam and Eve are considered to have been the first people on Earth; were there people before them?
The Kabbalist: Adam and Eve were not the first people. There was a man who lived on this Earth some five thousand seven hundred and sixty years ago, and his name was Adam. He was the first person to attain the Upper World, which is why mankind’s spiritual development begins with him. And that is why our entire earthly path is measured in relation to him.
The journalist: So he was the first Kabbalist?
The Kabbalist: Yes, he was the first Kabbalist. Naturally, before him people existed in the same way as you and I. But they weren’t Kabbalists—they lacked the aspiration to attain their root, the Upper World, and that is how they existed on our Earth. They were chased after by animals, they procreated, and so on.
The journalist: So the Jewish calendar isn’t dated from mankind’s appearance on Earth?
The Kabbalist: It’s dated from Adam. We couldn’t date it from the appearance of mankind; that was somewhere around fifty thousand years ago.
The journalist: That is, exclusively from the commencement of this spiritual movement?
The Kabbalist: Of course, because that is the main thing, that is what’s called, “man.”